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Just in time for Craft Beer Week (which runs from Sept. 11 through 20), Brooklyn Brewery brewmaster Garrett Oliver shares his thoughts on what to drink and where, as well as musings on Philly vs. NYC, Bud Light Lime and Thomas Keller.
How do you define craft beer?
It's a difficult question. But as someone once famously said, "I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it." Largely we're talking about traditional beers made by traditional methods from traditional ingredients. [But also] non-traditional ingredients and methods that make the beer more interesting or flavorful rather than dumbing it down. You have to answer this question properly so you don't end up referring to something ersatz like Bud Light Lime. [Laughs]
What's your role in Craft Beer Week?
We're one of the sponsors. Also, one of the tours stops by the brewery [Editor's note: It's the Brewed in Brooklyn beer walk on Sept. 12]. And I'm doing a beer dinner at Per Se. Philly really got this whole concept started, and I think the challenge with doing one here is New Yorkers. I'm a native New Yorker so I think well of us certainly, but we're distracted, and trying to get our attention is famously difficult. Can we capture the attention and interest of New Yorkers? I think we have some things going that can.
I've stood outside Per Se longingly a few times wondering if I should pay my rent this month or eat dinner.
Yeah, it's not something you'll be doing everyday. But I think the fact that they were interested really speaks to where craft beer is right now. We actually make a beer specifically for Thomas Keller's restaurants; it's called Blue Apron. He came to us some time ago and said he wanted us to produce a beer for him, and I don't say no to an opportunity to work with Thomas Keller.
How does New York's craft beer culture compare to other beery cities like Portland and Philly?
[Jokingly] Philly certainly considers itself the best beer city in the nation. But it's much easier to find craft beer in NYC. I can walk out the door here in Williamsburg and walk into three or four delis that have over 100 beers in them within 10 minutes. You couldn't possibly open a bar now in NYC and offer only mass-market beer—in most neighborhoods anyway.
And when it comes to high-end restaurants, there's no place [in Philly] on the level of, say, Gramercy Tavern when it comes to both food and beer. Then again, Philly is catching up and they do have Philly Beer Week, which the city really takes to heart.
What American breweries are you excited about?
Among my favorites is Russian River, out of California. Also the guys at Ommegang and Victory make great beer. And Dogfish Head and Allagash. I really think worldwide people look to the U.S. as the focus of creativity when it comes to beer. You'll see a lot of beers around the world that are essentially American craft restyled. For example, in Italy they may put chestnut flower into a beer where chestnuts are a part of a lot of local cuisine, giving those beers a distinctive flavor and something that's uniquely Italian. Or you can be a German brewmaster for 30 years and never make a new beer. The beers are wonderful and they make them very well, but I think that's one reason why the German beer industry is slowly going downhill. Not because they don't make nice beer, but because they haven't made anything new in years.
How do you balance maintaining your craft status with Brooklyn Brewery's widespread success and distribution?
We are a much more artisanal brewery than we were even two or three years ago. We have the largest program of 100 percent bottle-refermentation in the US. We have a huge barrel aging program. We make a new draft beer every two months as part of our Brewmaster's Reserve program. Like the beer we made with Stumptown Coffee Roasters, or the Cuvee de Cardoz, which we made a few months ago with Tabla chef Floyd Cardoz; it was infused with 12 different spices that he put together, toasted and ground. The next Reserve is a beer called Manhattan Project—it's a strong beer aged in Rittenhouse Rye barrels and infused with botanicals from vermouth and bitters, making a beer that tastes like a Manhattan. [Editor's note: Holy crap!]
What's next for you and/or the brewery?
We're soon going into another 10,000 square feet next door. And next week I'm going to Europe and spending five days making malt by hand in the south of England. We'll be making a strong beer out of it called Back Breaker since I'll be turning 19 tons of malt by hand, after which I don't expect to be able to walk.
What's your guilty pleasure in terms of mass-produced beer? Sneak any cheap American canned beers late night?
I know it makes me sound like a stick in the mud, but you know what, I really really just don't like those beers at all.
When's the last time you had a Budweiser?
[Laughs] It's been a very, very long time.
Photo courtesy Garrett Oliver
What other people are saying...
saraht - September 10, 2009 at 9:43 PM
That Manhattan Project sounds insane! I heard they are also brewing bacon beer over there these days.
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