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In advance of the upcoming Beer, Bourbon and BBQ Festival on Jan. 30 at la.venue in Chelsea, we figured attendees may need some direction in pairing the over 60 bourbons and craft beers with plates and plates of smoked hog. So we called in the big guns, sitting down with NYC-based experts in each category: mixologist Jim Meehan (PDT), barbecue pitmaster Joe Carroll (chef-owner of Fette Sau and Spuyten Duyvil) and brewmaster Garret Oliver (Brooklyn Brewery). Over a growler Brooklyn Brewery private batch (double-smoked, double-fermented bacon brown ale, natch) the beer-bourbon-barbecue triumvirate discussed pork, Belgian wheats and which of the three Bs has yet to receive its proper NYC close-up.
Big question: what to hit first?
Garret Oliver: Always go for bourbon last.
Joe Carroll: Unless it’s a cocktail, I don’t like drinking spirits with food, because there’s too much heat from the alcohol, which gets in the way of flavor.
Jim Meehan: However, you’d always want to get to the table you’re most interested in tasting. Whether its beer, bourbon or barbecue—avoid the line.
GO: If you’re going to have a room full of barbecue, you’ve got to have a strategy.
So, all three of you would go for the barbecue first?
JM: Light before dark. And beer is liquid food, so I would go for beer first.
GO: You can always wait on the food line with beer, but you don’t want to be waiting on the beer line with food. Always go to the beer line first. Then the food, then the bourbon, then sit down.
For some time now barbecue, a quintessentially Southern, blue-collar food, has been really hot in NYC. Why?
JC: Barbecue seems blue-collar because it’s something you do in your backyard. It’s something that everyone eats. It’s totally democratic food.
GO: Very few people do real barbecue, which is different from grilling. Everyone does grilling—that’s throwing some meat on a grill.
JM: I’ve never had an apartment in NYC where I’ve had a backyard to put a grill. And I love the taste of meat that’s been roasted over wood.
GO: Barbecue is country food, not city food. You have to have a smoker, which has to be running all the time. Put that in the middle of a city and you have a problem. But the people who’ve figured that out…
JC: Thank you.
GO: Well, God bless ‘em for figuring it out.
And why barbecue pork? Why not goat or beef?
JM: Goat is pretty game-y, pretty goat-y. There’s not much meat. Steakhouses have always been a big thing here. But there’s something about pork—you’ve got that pork fat, which is so much more flavorful and palatable. There’s something sexy about pork fat.
JC: We’re buying whole pigs now if that tells you something.
JM: And relating that back to bourbon, as a business owner, you could buy a great bottle of bourbon for under $20 at a liquor store, and make incredible cocktails. There’s an economic principle binding everything in New York, because we all pay a lot of rent, so everything has to be financially sustainable.
What’s a bourbon-based cocktail that would work perfectly with barbecue?
JM: A Manhattan made with a good amount of vermouth would work very well with pork.
JC: An Old Fashioned or Sazerac are pretty complex drinks. Pairing it with barbecue is like putting strength on strength. I’d want something with a high acidity, like a Mint Julep.
JM: When we’re talking about this gathering, we’re talking about the Boilermaker—which is a glass of beer and a shot of bourbon. I find that when you go to events like these, and you finish your beer, the whiskey is there for you to have a drink until you get another beer. Whiskey insures that your glass is never empty.
What about beer matched with barbecue?
GO: Well, are you going for contrast or harmonize? Harmony means darker beers—brown ales and porters will latch onto the smoke and roast flavors. But the other way to go is with wheat beers, especially the Belgian styles.
OK, pair something with beef short ribs?
GO: Brown ale.
Pork shoulder?
GO: Classic Oktoberfest.
JC: You’d be hard-pressed to find beers that don’t go with anything you’re eating. But you don’t want something that will clobber you with flavor—nothing super hoppy. I’d go for a pilsner or a lager.
JM: I want something lighter, drier, a beer that quenches thirst along with complementing the food.
Out of the three B’s, which has yet to hit critical mass?
JC: Beer. In the six years that Spuyten Duyvil’s been open, we’ve gone from three or four microbrews to an embarrassment of riches in local craft beer. That said, craft beer doesn’t get the same attention that food or spirits does.
GO: People haven’t taken full advantage of the variety of beers available—restaurants are woefully behind the public. The public knows what great stuff is available and they take advantage of it.
JC: So many people get so uptight about where their food is coming from, with grass-fed beef and heritage pig. Why not the same approach towards beer? There’s a giant disconnect.
JM: There isn’t a great brewpub in Manhattan where you can eat the food and drink the beer and have a great meal.
Lastly, which do you think will get tapped first at the festival? One-word answers, please.
GO: Fatty brisket.
JC: Barbecue.
JM: Napkins.
Photos by Ryan Muir
