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"I think I've proved that I've always stuck to my guns," says John Lydon. "But what I say or do isn't to hurt anyone, or make the world a worse place. I have an all-encompassing love for human beings."
Not quite what one might expect from Lydon, the legendary frontman for the punk rock stalwarts Sex Pistols and recently reactivated Public Image Limited. But the years have... well, not mellowed the once-cantankerous singer, but added a thoughtful edge to his delivery.
Public Image's return comes after over a decade of musical dormancy for Lydon (outside of a few Sex Pistols reunion gigs), which saw the singer dabble in reality TV, commercials, radio and even hosting nature specials. But his time away from the music world has done little to dilute PIL's potent mix of dub, dance and post-punk rhythms - if anything, the band sounds as brilliantly avant garde as it did twenty or thirty years ago.
With PIL wrapping up their U.S. tour this week with two shows in New York, we had a chance to speak with the still-opinionated singer on evil record companies, funny band riots, how a butter ad is funding his musical vision and why this might have been the worst time ever to become an American citizen.
A British music magazine referred to recently as "national treasure." Is that something you ever thought you'd hear about yourself?
Oh my God. Don't believe it. That kind of comment doesn't put money in the coffers, you know? I don't like grand titles, actually. They irritate me. I've never done this for any sort of awards. I just wanted to be a positive influence on people's lives - even from the day I was a young working class lad just living above the poverty line.
It was almost 29 years ago today that you performed a rather infamous concert at the Ritz (now Webster Hall) here in New York. The resulting riot was described as "Nero watching Rome burn."
That wasn't supposed to be a live show. We were just experimenting with a camera system that people at the venue seemed incapable of operating. It was one wrong thing after another - it was just a natural born comedy. I had just arrived on a plane that morning and went straight to the venue. It wasn't supposed to be a show, but somebody advertised it as a live gig by PIL. Ooops! We created quite a scene. Let's make it into more of a pleasant scenario, though - it was a "soft riot.' And everyone had a good time...nobody left with a frown on their face.
Why resurrect Public Image Limited now?
Money. I'd be dying to do another PIL record, but the record companies have been creating barriers to doing it. They'd always bring up previous debts I owed. I'd argue that if you don't release the records, you don't recoup the debt! The amount of shenanigans we've had to go through is ridiculous. PIL is a most excellent band. (Laughs) The most excellent band in the WORLD. We're ground-breaking. It's been my one big chance in life to tell the truth, through music and words. But the labels quite literally have blackmailed me from the start. "Can't you write a poppy love song?" NO. It's not the way I think. We'd have terrible arguments: "Does ‘This Is Not a Love Song' need the word ‘not' in it?" YES. It was like the Sex Pistols—I'm not going to drop the "sex" part to sell records.
There's been a lot of band turnover in PIL.
Not to be rude, who better than me to decide what's best for PIL? I started the band from scratch, nobody had much faith in it, and it's been that way ever since. Take the Sex Pistols—I'm still eternally grateful to them, it's my heritage. And any animosity we had was always to the benefit of the band. That volatility lead to some excellent songs. But PIL, especially with this line-up...it's just nice to love the people you're working with. And if I hadn't been offered a chance to promote that British butter company last year, I couldn't do this.
Did you enjoy that?
It was brilliant. Thirty years on a record label and nobody's ever treated me with that much respect. But this tour emptied my pockets. All that ad money went into PIL. We're an expensive operation - we don't cut corners. We handpick the crew and do the best we can on every aspect of this show. We're not just a band - we're one solid Viking raiding party. Our shields are in a proper phalanx, nobody's sneaking up on the rear.
Between your solo album in 1997 and now, you've led an interesting life—reality TV, Sex Pistols reunions, commercials, an appearance on "Judge Judy," hosting nature specials...what was your game plan during all of this?
I'd have loved to have a long-term plan, but that's not how I operate. I can't just be shunted from one TV show to the next. That'd be the cozy route...it might make me wealthy, but I'd make a fool of myself. I've got one life, I want to get it right. Since my solo album, I've had no backing. That solo album, by the way - that should be on school curriculums. There's a song on there called "Psychopath," which delves into the mindframe of a serial killer. It's a study on what motivates asocial behavior. It's kind of like how a lot of rock stars and sports stars think. They really start believing their bigger than God.
On this tour, you hung out with some congressmen when you performed in Boston. What was that about?
We actually spent the night talking about the Catholic Church (laughs), which matters to a lot of Bostonians. But they were there as music-minded peopled. They were real human beings. Yeah, real human beings in politics. By the way, I'm not pro any party—I'm more about common sense—and I find that lacking at the moment. I mean, I fought thirty years to get a green card - OF COURSE I want to be an American citizen! But I chose this time to do it? That chimpanzee Tea Party stuff...all the hate and division. At least punk united a lot of people.
Would you say you've mellowed a bit over the past few years?
Well, I've stopped wearing the same clothes. I guess you could say I've progressed. That's what age does, it broadens your horizons, makes you capable of grasping deeper concepts.
What's next for PIL?
We're going to record, and hopefully get back into a constant state of touring. You know, the great tragedy is that the band has so many brilliant songs, and you're not going to hear them all in a two-and-a-half hour set. I've got the lungs to do four hours a night. Despite all the sarcasms directed at me about this tour that I'm "fat"—I say everything droops according to gravity—it doesn't stop me from singing. I'll never cancel a gig because of a boo-boo on my ankle or because I'm stupid drunk. I respect my art and my craft too much.
Random question: The World Cup is coming up. You a football fan?
Arsenal. For me, it's all about Arsenal. You must support your local! They play about 200 yards from where I grew up. I think they're proof that you don't need superstars or chart position or any silly little awards. It's young men enjoying the game. That's what it's supposed to be all about.
